22 Jun 2010
Budget Reaction



2010: Emerging Markets beat Western Europe

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Transcript excerpt:

Hello and welcome to the Global Forecast from the Economist Intelligence Unit. I'm Tony McMahon and as ever I'm joined by Robin Bew. We're going to be looking ahead to what's likely to unfold throughout 2010 and into 2011.

So Robin if I can start first of all with the BRIC economies. You've revised growth upwards particularly for India and China. Why is that?

The momentum behind the latest data has generally been pretty good. I mean in 2009 in India the monsoon was poor and that holds back agriculture which is a big chunk of their economy, so in 2010 we're hoping things are going to be better. But also, India is not so exposed to the international trade cycle so they haven't been as badly affected as other countries have been. Anyway and all the recent data is looking quite strong.

If you look to China of course, the stimulus package that they put in place and the amount of bank lending that has been going through the economy has really driven up private sector demand and so you're seeing a lot of investment, probably less consumption than we would have liked to have seen and that's keeping growth there very robust.

Actually, if you look a bit more widely, Brazil is looking very strong. I was in Brazil just about a month ago. They have a lot of optimism on the ground, a real sense that they've dodged the bullet in this particular crisis and things are looking quite good for them.

Even in Russia where things have obviously been very, very difficult, high oil prices are clearly helping and the government has stepped in to quite a great extent to help out the private sector. So even there we would expect to see some strength next year.

So broadly, the BRIC economies look pretty good. In 2010, while we're certainly not looking at growth rates of the sort we saw in 2006/2007 (that was when China was growing by 12, 13 percent) we are looking at growth rates which are pretty good even for those economies that are going relative to the rest of the world which won't be looking anything like as robust.

Dubai has obviously been in the news a lot and it comes as no surprise that you've revised growth downwards for the Middle East as a region.

We've taken the Middle East down. Clearly, Dubai itself has been in trouble for a long time but now we've seen a default and then a bailout from Abu Dhabi. But what that's done is really raised fears around solvency issues. Not just around sovereigns, the governments across the region, but also the issue about to what extent governments will or won't stand behind the private sector companies which previously perhaps investors wrongly have assumed the government would back. So there's a lot of fear about that and that means that credit availability in general becomes more difficult for those businesses and investors are worrying. You're seeing credit market downgrades. So companies that need to borrow to roll over debts are going to find it harder and that's going to crimp growth.

So unfortunately, Middle East actually looks rather worse and Dubai, while not directly the cause of that, has just reminded everyone about how risky that region was because of all the borrowing that we'd seen going on.

Well you were quite upbeat about the BRIC economies, but turning to Western Europe, let's look at what's becoming known as the PIGS (Portugal, Ireland, Greece and Spain). What's going to happen to them in 2010?

Yes, the acronyms are moving from the more uplifting end towards the rather more pessimistic end - and it's Western Europe. I think it is interesting of course that in the past we always used to think the emerging markets was a terribly risky place, but actually, right now, BRIC economies and plenty of other emerging market economies around the world actually look pretty robust. When you have to start looking for the really riskier places you're looking in Western Europe. So as you say, Portugal, Ireland, Greece, Spain and I guess there particularly worried about Ireland and Greece. Ireland is small. Greece a bit bigger. Clearly not one of the most significant economies in the eurozone, but we see really significant fiscal stress and all of the political issues that float to the surface when you try to deal with that. I mean the government there hasn't announced a particularly ambitious fiscal consolidation programme because they feel politically that's very difficult to do, but absolutely you see investors terrified about what might happen there. A default is possible, but we think pretty unlikely because as part of the eurozone the implications for eurozone creditworthiness, the value of the euro all those sorts of things mean that other governments would ultimately (perhaps not directly, but certainly indirectly) try to intervene to prevent that. You'll probably get some official support going into Greece to help them through the gap.

But I think the big issue for the eurozone is that Greece is not doing what it is supposed to do. It's not consolidating fiscal policy anything like as aggressively as it needs to and the levers that the other members have to chance their behaviour are not that great. The most important thing in Greece right now is what's going on politically and the government doesn't feel able to act and it's an interesting contrast to what you see happening in Ireland where the problems are just as great but the government has taken it on the chin. They're really making some dramatic efforts to rein in the fiscal deficit and are taking a lot of political heat on the back of that. So you see the two governments jumping in different ways and I think the big issue for the eurozone is that Ireland is going to get all the pain. The political consequences are probably going to be quite marked. Greece so far hasn't really grasped the mettle and done anything. And what's the downside for them? Well they could go bust, but it's much more likely that they will get support if it got into that situation and so this moral hazard problem that we talked about with private sector companies a couple of years ago is now an issue for governments as well and in the eurozone I think it's a particularly big issue.

Turning to the US, you expect the US dollar to strengthen. Why is that?

Well there are a couple of things. Firstly, we think that by the end of next year you're going to see US interest rates start to creep back up. At the moment what you're seeing is the extraordinary monetary policy measures, the liquidity facilities and so on. They're going to be reined in first and the Fed has actually just announced a series of those are going to come to an end in the first few months of 2010. By the end of the year we think interest rates will be creeping up. So that's going to help support the dollar.

But the other thing I think will be going on is that right now the dollar is soft in part because investors see the strength in the emerging market economies and they want a piece of that and often those trades are funded out of dollars. So they sell dollars to buy whatever it is - Brazilian reals - in order to invest overseas.

Now we think that as you go through next year it will become more obvious that the longer term growth outlook for the world is as a little bit more depressed than people are assuming and that tends to mean investors become a bit more risk averse and that also tends to be strong dollar story because when investors are worried they tend to gravitate back to the US Treasury bond market and that strengthens the dollar. So there will be a couple of things supporting the currency next year - higher interest rates and a slight sense that the world is not such a great place as people are currently assuming and that means people run back to the US bond market.

You've been warning for a while now that the choking off of government stimulus packages could have a negative impact on global economic growth. So how do you see that playing out in 2010?

We think that obviously right now the stimulus policies are in full flow and you see a lot of the positive growth numbers being released at the moment, so late 2009/early 2010. There's a big government component to that either directly because governments are spending money, or indirectly because they've either reduced taxes or they're pumping liquidity into the financial system and that's feeding through. As we go through 2010 a lot of those policies are not affordable. Certainly Western governments can't continue to run budget deficits as big as the ones that we're seeing at the moment because government debt is rising to a level that becomes quite worrying. It's going to have implications for long-term interest rates. So you're not going to see those stimulus packages of a similar scale next year. You will see significant government spending, but certainly the injection of additional liquidity into the economy, that will be less and that means that growth will drop away unless the private sector steps up to the plate and starts spending more. Right now we're not really seeing that and the issue, I think, is that for businesses and individuals, while all this government spending is helping them out, it doesn't alter the fact that a lot of businesses and a lot of people are carrying far more debt than they're comfortable with and their priority is to repay. Of course, when you're repaying you're not investing, you're not spending and that suggests to us as we get to the end of 2010 and into 2011 growth is going to slow down and in some markets, quite markedly.

I mean if you look to the US we think that government stimulus second half of next year will be quite a bit less than it was this year and we see a lot of debt problems in the private sector which suggests to us that growth is going to slow pretty sharply. You could see 1, 1.5 per cent coming off growth in markets like that and I think in places like Europe as well it's going to get increasingly difficult because the focus will switch to fiscal consolidation. The private sector is not as robust as people hope and some of the momentum is going to come out of the economy.

So when investors look at the markets right now and they see that growth is accelerating and things are improving, I think it's really important to understand how much policy is driving that and then to understand that those policy settings cannot persist throughout 2010. That it is unaffordable and it will be reined in.

As governments retrench, do you think the banks will learn to lend again?

The banks have quite a big issue themselves. I mean clearly their balance sheets are extraordinarily weak and while we're seeing a lot of very good results being released at the moment, of course the government is standing behind a lot of those results. So it may be liquidity facilities. There's been a lot of regulatory forbearance, so banks have not had to deliver these results in a truly private sector market. They've had a lot of support. So we think going forwards what you're going to see is a much more risk averse attitude on the part of banks towards lending and banks are going to be much more reluctant to take on the sorts of credit risks that they were taking on a couple of years ago. Their balance sheets aren't strong enough and the flipside, of course, is that the rest of the private sector probably won't want to borrow like that in the future anyway. So our hunch is that banks will not be lending in anything like the way that we were used to over the early years of this decade and again, the lack of credit flowing through the economy suggests softer investment, softer employment growth than we've seen in the past. And while it's easy to think that's a bad negative scenario, it's transitory, we'll come out of it, actually, what we think is that the long run equilibrium for the world is a lower credit and probably lower growth world certainly in the Western countries in Europe and America and we need to get used to that. So we can't benchmark a recovery on going back to where we were in 2006 because we think that's not sustainable.

Looking ahead beyond 2010 to 2011, you still expect growth to soften, particularly in the US. What's the thinking behind that?

Yes, as fiscal stimulus is removed, the strength of the private sector, or the lack of strength in the private sector, is going to be the main story around the economy and with all of the debt that's still there and will still be there at that time, there will be a much lower willingness to invest, a much lower willingness to consume than we've seen in the past. There will be a lot more saving, a lot more paying down debt and those balance sheet issues that we see in America, which are there now but are disguised by the fact that the government is pumping in so much cash, will act to retard growth. And while we don't expect America to end up looking like Japan did during the 1990s, the broad picture about what's happening is not that dissimilar.

In Japan you saw companies carrying far too much debt and they spent a decade trying to pay it off. Now in America you see individuals and some companies as well carrying far too much debt and they may spend a decade trying to pay it off as well. Now in Japan's case, that essentially meant the economy went sideways for 10 years. We think policy in America has been better than that, but this idea that when the focus is on paying down debt, the focus is not on spending money, does suggest that the American economy will be weak for longer than perhaps people are assuming.

Thank you Robin. Well it looks as though 2010 is going to be another interesting year for the global economy. To keep updated on developments, tune into the Global Forecast every month. Until next month, thank you and goodbye.

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In 2010, China and India will lead the growth story while some western European economies will present major problems for investors, says Robin Bew

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